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The biggest problem with Discord is that its an information black hole. Its not properly searchable and not indexed by search engines.
Discord is fine for casual chat, but horrible when used for forum-type discussions and even worse when used for documentation.
You see the same problems being discussed and solved again and again, but you cant just “link” someone the solution like you could with a forum thread cause its spread out over 3-10 chat messages that are interleaved in-between other topics being discussed in the same room
Anything of long-term value for the project (forum-type discussions, documentation etc) should not recide in Discord
There’s going to be a lot of shocked Pikachus when the inevitable enshittification hits, and suddenly they charge to host all the documentation and wiki pages. All that barely maintained stuff will just vanish overnight.
At this point, charging for the service is the only thing left to do to make it more shit…
I have all the issues with Discord that you mention, but struggle to find a better alternative. Do you have any recommendations?
Forums. Phpbb, Mybb, hell even discourse is better than discord. If you’re specifically dealing with a coding project, most git repositories offer an issues page and wiki you can use.
i don’t understand discord’s popularity at all. it’s so annoying to use
It started getting popular years ago and that’s when me an my friends switched to it too (back when I didn’t know shit about privacy). You gotta keep in mind the alternatives back then were Skype, which was meant for 1 to 1 calls, had shit audio quality and issues all the time and TeamSpeak, which was complicated because you needed a server (we were kids, we only knew what a server was from Minecraft) and had a text chat that was only a small part of the bottom of the window that was full of connected and disconnected messages, so I actually didn’t even know you could write in that. TeamSpeak’s interface also isn’t exactly good-looking or very intuitive. Then came Discord, you could create a server for you and your friends for free, you saw who of your friends was online and playing what, you could see when someone was in a voice channel and could just join, you had multiple text chats where you could easily send a link or memes while playing and you could easily share your screen with the others. It was a major improvement over the other two. I know that it sucks from a privacy standpoint but there’s good reasons why people started using it.
It was my replacement of Skype, which was leaning hard into its enshittification around that time.
What? Skype is better than discord
Not when discord launched. Discord had far better audio quality, multiple text and voice channels, and some moderation tools. Skype was basically a group chat with a group call function
Use discourse instead? It’s really the best in my opinion.
Or just don’t use Discord.
my main problem is issue cannot be searched on search engine
Chat and forum are different things and serve different purposes. Even matrix doesn’t solve the search problem. Use a forum for this.
yeah that is why discord should not be used for problem-solving or archival purpose. Hell, even mastodon,reddit and lemmy can be indexed properly on search engine.
As someone deeply involved in Foss for many years and with multiple large Foss services running on my back, these constant requests for purity from outsiders will go nowhere until volunteers people step up to do the hard work of setting up and maintaining the infrastructure and management of such Foss solutions in the place of the core developers
? What’s the difference between setting up a free forum (they’re everywhere) versus setting up Discord channels? It’s the exact same process.
a free forum
“Oh great, I’ll have to create another fucking account” - me, already having some 300 accounts in my key-vault…
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make unless you’re saying no one has to create a Discord account, or have to download an app, or have to find an invite to locate the server. My keys are auto-generated and auto-saved, simple 20 second process. Forums are also a lot easier to sign up for than Discord, if you’re worried about making another account I don’t know what to tell ya because every service requires it.
You set up a discord account once. When you want to join a project discord all you have to do is click the invite link and hit „accept“. Bam. Done. No need to join a forum. No need to keep track of another website and check if you got a personal message from someone or something. The benefit is that it is all one location.
It’s undoubtedly nice during that step of the process, but afterwards you’re on a platform that may not be well suited to the purpose. It’d be better just to make the new account on an actual forum. Granted, I use Bitwarden now, so I don’t sweat making new accounts anymore.
This makes me wonder if there is a centralized system for forums. We have stackexchange already, but that’s really designed to be a question and answer site.
Discourse, NodeBB and Flarum are all currently working on ActivityPub federation support. The first two have some basic support already available.
Edit: I read “decentralized”. The “centralized” system for forums is obviously Reddit.
Ease, convenience, existing userbase, familiarity, choose a few
I guess we have different perspectives. Ease, convenience = forums, existing userbase? = Do you prefer Reddit for this reason?, familiarity = forums lol, search-ability = forums, privacy = forums, etc etc.
Forums are not the same as real-time. And yes for most of the people using discord, forums wouldn’t cover the same niche.
I don’t want real time. Does me no good in my time zone.
That’s what lemmy is for.
I second this!
It’s especially disappointing to see FOSS people on Fediverse promoting it.
If you’re desperate for a discord-like experience (because lets face it, irc and mailing lists arent very flashy anymore!) you can try:
- rocket chat - General purpose chat platform, very similar discord
- mattermost - developer-centric platform, similar to slack
- Matrix - open protocol, has a bunch of desktop clients
Yes you wont have voice/vodeo chat for these but IMO that’s rarely useful anyway. And if you DO need it then you can use stuff like teamspeak or zoom******yes i know the issues with these options but for devs you dont really ever need to use meetings for very long and sometimes using a shitty free service with all you need is better than self hosting your own. Maybe Nextcloud talk can work?Some good arguments made for FOSS voice/meeting apps, and why VC and meetings are more important to the FOSS workflow than I thought :)
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Stop recommending closed-source, paid solutions. It makes you look like a shill.
Matrix is the only suitable replacement for discord, as it is the only federated replacement.
Matrix was built by Israeli intelligence & consumes so many resources that it’s not feasible to self-host on most budgets. As such it’s highly centralized & the community is still largely being ran by Matrix.org as the keeper of the implementation server, the most popular client, the specification, the largest server- which syncs back the metadata.
Mattermost is by-design centralized but it’s self-hostable & AGPL so I’m not sure where the closed-source accusation is coming from. At least it’s less wasteful than trying to be decentralized & if you wanted lightweight decentralization, you would reach for XMPP.
Matrix was built by Israeli intelligence
Source?
Thanks for the interesting rabbithole.
Well, that’s something I didn’t know, but it seems like they’ve been in the process of removing or giving the ability to remove the parts that communicate back to the main Matrix coordinators since 2019. And it’s been 2017 since they had funding from Amdocs. I’d certainly listen if someone says they’ve recently analyzed that sort of data going back to the organizations servers. It doesn’t look like it though.
At this point, the fact that it’s all opensource and the self-hosting options/configurations let you keep things internal now would make the point of its origin moot. TOR is another example of something that may have suspicious origins but because it’s public and OS, most people trust the privacy of its implementation.
I think you misspelled “Please use the appropriate tool for a specific job”
Which certainly isn’t Discord
I have an existing community of thousands of users on discord, attempts to migrate to other platforms have failed. What would you suggest?
The community was inherited and existed when I became maintainer.
Set up a Matrix bridge and promote it too. You can’t force a community but you can inform and give choice.
We tried that. Did nothing but divide the community, cause increased cost, increased administrative burden, increased spammers and detracted efforts from actually working on the project. Ultimately, about five legitimate community members continued to used it over three to six months.
Matrix is IMHO a bad choice as it attracts the same demographic as Discord (glossy webclient) but is much more janky. Realistically speaking it is a poor Slack clone once you look beyond the technical aspect of federation which few people care deeply enough about to endure the buggy and half-broken user experience of Element.
I have had great success bridging to IRC (and XMPP). Yes, it will not fully replace Discord, but it allows a very dedicated group of people to participate in a community on their own terms and with great lightweight clients.
I agree though that any kind of bridge increases the risk of spam. But you should really try to get community members on board to deal with this kind of thing. Developing a software and running a community alone is not a good idea.
Ahhh, yet another “Discord bad” post. Let’s see what alternatives they propose. After all, just telling me I made the wrong choice isn’t productive right?
There are great FOSS alternatives to Discord or Slack. SourceHut has been investing in IRC by building more accessible services like chat.sr.ht. Other great options include Matrix and Zulip. Please consider these services before you reach for their proprietary competitors.
Hahaha hahaha. Good fucking joke.
There’s a reason Discord is a million times more usable than all of those, and it’s not just network effect.
…
I’m well aware discord is going to enshittify itself eventually. It’s inevitable. However quite frankly as long as that hasn’t happened yet, it will remain by far the best option. I am not going to knee-cap my project by using a Discord “alternative” that barely works.
The day Discord dies will be a massive loss for the internet. That hasn’t happened yet. But it will. And it’s not going to be a loss just because of all the communities locked in on it. It’s going to be a loss because it’s the best damn community chat software and there’s no replacement.
The day Discord dies will be a massive loss for the internet.
What loss will that be? Discord’s value is the same as MSN Messenger - the history on Discord is already unusable for resolving issues, so when it’s gone people will just move to the next real-time communication platform that fills the same gap. It’s not a forum that people can search and find answers on years after discussions have happened and solutions have been posted.
See my other comments. There is still no suitable alternative to Discord that is as good at it for making communities people can easily access. The loss is not solely in the messages that get locked away (sure that sucks too). It’s the loss of the communities that can’t exist on platforms like Matrix or IRC.
I’ve used Zulip a couple times and thought it had some neat features and worked well enough. What’s so bad about it that justifies a reaction like that?
When the OP article was posted in 2021, Zulip didn’t even have public access as an option. This basically would make it a non-starter for what the article author suggests it for, as that’s worse (having to make an account everywhere) than Discord, Matrix or IRC.
To be honest I don’t have too much experience with Zulip or Rocket or all of these other new platforms, but my current default assumption is that they will always be designed foremost for organizations rather than the “I am in 20 communities I am somewhat active in[1]” like Discord. Matrix always seems like the better choice here… but it’s got its own issues.
I also don’t put much regard into the author’s word here because unironically suggesting IRC in 2021 means they’re off their rocker.
[1] I know you can only join like 100 servers without nitro ok.
as long as that hasn’t happened yet
Hasn’t happened yet? Have you seen the new mobile app? What usability?
i agree with you that irc is not a good alternative, but [Matrix] is
I think you meant XMPP?
XMPP is dead and buried lets be honest
